zodiac
Case closed?
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The Zodiac case remains one of the most notorious unsolved murder mysteries in American history, and it continues to capture public interest and speculation. The self-proclaimed Zodiac killer was a serial killer who operated in Northern California, primarily in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In 2014 a man named Gary L. Stewart published a book, co-written by journalist Susan Mustafa, The Most Dangerous Animal of All, about how he came to the conclusion that his biological father was the Zodiac killer.
In this episode, Forensic Scientist George Schiro speaks about his involvement - examining the alleged DNA profile of the Zodiac and Gary Stewart. Is Gary Stewart the biological son of the infamous Zodiac?
Mr. Schiro will be presenting on this topic at the Association of Forensic DNA Analysts and Administrators annual meeting, July 27-28, 2023 in San Antonio, Texas. To learn more visit afdaa.org
To learn more about or to contact the guest, George Schiro, M.S., visit his website.
Episode transcript
Case Solved? Unraveling a DNA thread in the Zodiac killer enigma - featuring Forensic Scientist George Schiro.
[00:00:00] George: In March 15th, 1963, the man known as Gary Stewart today was abandoned as a baby in a stairwell in an apartment complex in Baton Rouge. So this is kind of where Gary's story starts... then in May of 2002, a lady by the name of Julia Gifford contacts Mr. Stewart's adoptive mother and she said she's looking for her son... So in June of 2002, he meets his mother. His next obvious question is who was my father? ... he notices a photograph of his father and he says, this looks very much like the sketch of the zodiac ...
[00:00:36] Angela: hello, and welcome to secrets from the crime lab, a science education podcast, where we discuss forensic science and related scientific fields and topics. I'm your host, Angela Swarts. Today we're doing a special episode, that's presented in partnership with the Association of Forensic DNA analysts and administrators. Full disclosure, I am a fellow member with ADFAA, so I do have ulterior motives for promoting the organization. We are an nonprofit organization registered 501c3 and the primary purpose is to provide a forum for the exchange of ideas and information among forensic DNA scientists so we can stay current on methods and techniques and procedures that are presently used in the field of forensic science. AFDAA promotes the dissemination of information on research and developments of new techniques within the field. It helps keep our membership abreast of the latest legislative issues concerning DNA analysis. Gives us an opportunity to network with other DNA crime laboratories and personnel. It provides a way for us to get formal training and opportunities to attend guest lectures, and really just provides a good forum to share and troubleshoot a lot of issues that we encounter in forensic D N A.
This year we have our annual general meeting that's going to be held on July 26th through the 28th in San Antonio, Texas at the Hilton Palacio Del Rio. And I will provide a link in the, show notes, but you can find more details afdaa.org, that's A F D A A.org Click on the about tab and select meetings slash workshops option.
The space for the meeting is limited. So if you are interested in attending the meeting, it is open to everyone, you don't have to be in the field to attend. But do register as soon as you can to make sure that your spot is reserved. As far as meetings go AFDAA is by far one of the most economic meetings that you can attend. Registration is only $60 for non-members so you get a lot of high quality continuing education from the guest lecturers at the meetings for a very low price. So it's definitely worth your time to look into and attend the meeting. It's a very casual, friendly space and AFDAA members are always very welcoming to everyone. So I do encourage you to attend the meeting if it's something that you're interested in doing.
Now with me today, I have one of the speakers that's going to be presenting at the meeting about what we could call possibly one of the coldest cases around. But I don't want to give away too much yet. I'm going to let George talk about that. George is also an AFDAA member. He's also a fellow with the organization and both of us have previously been chairpersons of the organization. And I don't know if you remember this, George, but you were responsible for making me give one of my first professional talks ever while you were the chairperson. I ended up giving a presentation on the validation of the Promega DNA IQ system on the Biomek 2000. So that's a bit of a history lesson for anybody out there in the field.
George, would you like to introduce yourself?
[00:04:08] George: Sure. My name is George Schiro. I'm a forensic scientist and crime scene investigator. I've been so for about the past 39 years. As Angela mentioned, I'm a fellow of AFDAA. I was also a former chairperson of the organization at one time. My background, I started About 39 years ago in forensic science.
So I've seen a lot of changes. A lot of things come and go. A lot of developments changes in the way we do things, changes in the way we interpret things. I began my career shortly after I graduated from college. I graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in microbiology from Louisiana State University, go Tigers.
And uh, I received my Master of Science degree in industrial chemistry in forensic science from the University of Central Florida. I was fortunate enough to begin my career at the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office Crime Lab, which was outside, just outside of New Orleans. And I think three of the most influential people I've met in forensic sciences who had a great deal of impact on me and my career. Were Ron Singer who was director at the time Louise Walter, who was who became the first female president of the Association of Forensic firearms and Toolmark Examiners and Joe Warren who Joe and I forged a lifelong friendship. Many of you know him.
Many people know him because he ran the program at the University of North Texas Health Science Center for molecular biology uh, for several years. So I began doing things uh, what we called back then, general criminalistics, which are things like marijuana analysis Gunshot residue detection, arson analysis some late fingerprint development. And after working in that side of the lab for about a year and a half I moved over to what was then known as the forensic serology side of the lab where I worked with Joe Warren. He and I worked together exclusively. And back then uh, this was before the days of DNA. We were doing things like abo blood grouping looking at secretor status of individuals seeing if they secrete their abo blood group substances into body fluids. I continued working there. Uh, Also while I was there, I started gaining some experience in crime scene investigation. I would ride with our crime scene investigators to see what they would do, how they would do it how we could facilitate us working with the crime scene investigators to make things. Go a little smoother. I worked there for about another year and a half, and then I was hired by the Louisiana State Police Crime Lab in Baton Rouge. And while there I continued working in the area of serology in addition to a b o blood typing. We're also doing what we call polymorphic enzymes back then, where we were trying to, again, find genetic markers that would help us further narrow down if you know, a person may have uh, contributed to a stain or not. While I was there, I also picked up some expertise in crime scene investigation. I became a regular crime scene investigator with the Louisiana State police Crime Lab. Started working in the areas of bloodstain pattern analysis. Also continued latent fingerprint development as well as began doing footwear comparisons. In addition to doing serology and continued there up around probably around 2000, probably around 1999, 2000 or so. Myself and my coworker, Carolyn Booker she and I set up the first DNA lab in at the Louisiana State Police Crime lab. We validated the systems and we trained the analysts in how to do the techniques and how to. How to work the technology of DNA analysis. She and I both left there right around 2002 and were hired by the Acadiana Lab, which was in New Iberia, Louisiana ca- sort and Cajun country. We served uh, eight parishes in that area um, Louisiana. Louisiana doesn't have counties. We gotta be different, have parishes. So continued working there. I was the, I became the DNA technical leader of the Acadiana Crime Lab and continued also working crime scenes while I was there. About 2013 I retired from the Acadiana Crime Lab and came over to Scale's Biological Laboratory, which is where I'm at today.
I'm the lab director there. The previous owner, Dr. Bo Scales he retired and asked me if I wanted to come take over the lab. So I did. We're a private DNA n testing facility located in Brandon, Mississippi. And we primarily do forensic DNA analysis, but we also do a lot of human identification. We do a lot of work on bone and teeth. We also do paternities as well. So like I said, I've been doing this for quite a while.
I've worked cases from all over the country. I've probably worked somewhere in the neighborhood, about 4,800 cases. I've testified in about 13 different states in federal court as well as military court. So I've been around a block a little bit and um, I've been fortunate enough to be featured on a couple of TV shows and a couple of books, that sort of thing. So it's been a, it's been a great career for me, and that's my story.
[00:09:01] Angela: Yeah, so you've definitely kind of been in forensics for long enough to see the beginning of DNA.
[00:09:09] George: Yes, I saw the very first bases, the first strands as they
[00:09:13] Angela: They're the first strands. You personally witnessed them,
[00:09:17] George: Yes.
[00:09:17] Angela: Yeah it's, it's interesting people don't realize that DNA I guess, has been such a part of what we do now in forensics that people don't realize that it wasn't that long ago that it wasn't even available as a tool. When I got started in forensics it was still relatively new. It was like the first iteration, one of the first iterations away from the, beginning, the early the R F L P days, like they just finished transitioning away from that to the beginnings of the short tandem repeats. But you were in it. Like before that even happened. So you've got some good skills in there for anybody that needs somebody to work a cold case for them.
[00:10:00] George: Yeah, and I do get contacted from time to time where there are cases that have serology abo blood typing things in older cases to look at and see you know, help interpret the results and see, if the controls work and that sort of thing. So I do still get occasion to, to reach back into the toolbox and you know, pull out the old tools to see uh, see what we can you know, Yeah,
[00:10:21] Angela: Remember what you were doing 35 years ago?
[00:10:25] George: Oh my God.
[00:10:26] Angela: Yeah. It was that long ago, right?
[00:10:27] George: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:29] Angela: Okay. Now, You're going to be giving a presentation on one of these cold cases at the AFDAA meeting, and it's one of those cases that everybody has heard about and you kind of got brought in for a special reason and I don't wanna give anything away. I'm gonna let, I'm gonna let you, you tell the story because it's really interesting.
And I guess everybody, anybody that clicked on the episode is gonna know because the Zodiac killer is going to be in the title of the episode oh my gosh. so, how did you end up getting involved in the Zodiac killer case?
[00:11:06] George: My involvement came right around 2012 or so. I was contacted by a true crime author. Her name is Susan Mustafa, who in her own right is a very colorful character. She wrote um, non-fiction true crime book about Derek Todd Lee, who was a serial killer who was terrorizing people in south southeast Louisiana.
I'm sorry your cat's tail distracted me a little bit
[00:11:34] Angela: Yes the Secrets from the Crime Lab mascot is fully present at the moment.
[00:11:41] George: Excellent, excellent. So Susan Mustafa called me when I was working at the Acadiana Crime Lab, and she said, she goes I met this guy. And all stories don't always start off good. Wednesday I met this guy, but she met this guy who claims that his father, he believes his father was the Zodiac killer. And they wanted to, she wanted to have some DNA testing done on him as well as his birth mother.
And um, this guy's name was Gary Stewart. And Gary Stewart has a fascinating story to tell, even beside just the zodiac thing, and I'll get into that in a minute. But um, Susan contacted me and said, Hey look, we got this guy. We need to uh, have some DNA testing done on it. And I said I work for a public crime lab. We can't accept that case. You'll need to find a private crime lab. And so I recommended Dr. Bo Scales who is another colorful character in his own right.
[00:12:39] Angela: I do. I remember. I remember I met him a few times. He's definitely a character,
[00:12:45] George: And he still is. He still is. And so they contacted Dr. Scales and they wanted to have Gary's DNA tested as well as his mother's DNA, tested a, first of all, to confirm the fact that they are they were mother and child and then Then they wanted to see what's the obligate paternal alleles or the DNA that he inherit inherited from his father would be and wanted to see if maybe some sort of comparison could be done between some potential Zodiac DNA samples and Gary Stewart's paternal alleles.
So that testing was conducted and based on the information that Mr. Stewart had provided we were not able to exclude the DNA profile that he provided as part, and I'll get into how he provided this. He provided we could not exclude him, we could not exclude the source of this DNA that was supposedly from the Zodiac as potentially being Gary Stewart's father. So that created a lot of intrigue, a lot of interest in the case. Mr. Stewart and Susan Mustafa eventually wrote a book called The Most Dangerous Animal of All. And in his book, he tells about what he believes are these connections to the Zodiac cases. And I think now I should maybe take a step back and give an overall picture of the Zodiac killings for those who may not be familiar with it.
And just outline, a timeline as to what happened. For those people who may not have heard of Zodiac or you know, may have heard about it, but don't really know what it is.
[00:14:19] Angela: Good idea.
[00:14:21] George: yeah, there's, there was a series of uh, five known murder victims of the Zodiac. He operated up in the northern California, well actually sort of San Francisco Bay area of California.
He claimed by the time the Zodiac finished, he claimed he had 37 victims. Okay. But there are only five that are actually known, and there were two also who survived his attacks. And like I said, I'll talk about that a little bit.
[00:14:46] Angela: Were they confirmed to have survived? I thought people said they had, but they didn't.
[00:14:51] George: No, No they, they definitely survived. One was shot the girl he was with died. He lived he was able to provide somewhat of a description. And then there was another guy who, he and his girlfriend were out picnicking, and he was, they were both stabbed. He actually survived the stabbing. But she didn't. And he was also able to and I'll get into the description as to what, what he, he saw. This story may or may not have started in October of 1966. Okay. There was a, Riverside Community College freshman named Cheri Joe Bates going to school there in Riverside, California. One night in October, she was at the library staying, studying late, doing whatever. She went back to her car. Her car would not start. She was found later on, not far from where her vehicle was located, stabbed to death. Now, there's some people who believe that this is a Zodiac killing but because there was some writings that were associated with her murder that the Zodiac Killer actually liked to write a lot about his killings and send letters to the newspaper and call the police and that sort of thing. But the Riverside Police Department, who's actually investigating a case they don't believe it's part of the series. And they, they're still in actively investigating this cold case.
So like I said, it may or may not start in October 66th, the first. Confirmed killings of the Zodiac occur in December of 1968. There's a couple named Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday. They were out on lake Herman Road in Benicia, California. They were at sort of a lover's lane area and a car pulled up beside them. Shot them. They believe Faraday was shot first and killed. And then he shot Miss Jensen following that. I believe after that there was a phone call saying, Hey, there's there, there's been this killing. And this was I think, the first Zodiac phone call where he called the police to tell 'em something had happened. So then it's quiet until about July 1969. Then there's a couple that's at Blue Rock Spring Park in Vallejo, California. Again, it's sort of a lover's lane type thing. The couple was Darlene Ferrin and Michael Mageau. They were both shot with a nine-millimeter luger pistol. Miss. Ferrin died, but Mr. Mageau lived, and last I saw he's still alive today, as far as I know. He described 26 to 30 year old average height, heavyset white male with short, curly brown hair. Okay. So this is our first description. And again, I believe there may have been a phone call that was placed to the police department saying, Hey you know, this couple was uh, shot, killed this couple that sort of thing.
Now, on august 1st, 1969 there were letters that were sent to the Vallejo Times Herald the San Francisco Chronicle and the San Francisco examiner. These three letters, again from the Zodiac, Came up, they, in addition to the letters, there were also three cryptograms. Each one was a third of a message that the Zodiac had sent. It was all these symbols and if people want to look at it up on an internet you can see these letters that were sent. And this was called the 4 0 8 cryptogram because there were 408 characters in it. So then on August 7th, another letter arrives to the San Francisco Examiner. Then on August 8th Donald and Betty Harden Mr. Harden was a school teacher. He and his wife sat down and were able to actually decrypt this 4 0 8 cryptogram. And so they were able to tell what this message was. It wasn't really anything of significance or anything that led to anything that, you know, that that would lead to his identity or anything like that. It was just talking about how he was gonna kill people and this and that and the
[00:18:30] Angela: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:30] George: In September of 1969 this is when we have the next attack. A couple named Bryan Hartnell and Cecilia Shepard. They were picnicking at Lake Berryessa in Napa County, California. While they were out there, this man approached them and he's wearing this outfit where he has a black executioner's hood on, clip on sunglasses, and he has like this bib-like garment in front of him that has a circle with a cross through it. And he goes there and he um, he ties them up. And then he stabs them repeatedly. Again, Miss shepherd, she did not survive the stabbing Mr. Hartnell did survive. So that's how we knew about this guy, what he looked like. And like I said, he was just pretty much covered head to toe. There wasn't really any real description of him.
[00:19:14] Angela: And is that where the name the Zodiac Killer came from? It was the, all these symbols that he liked or the symbol that he had on that symbol with the cross in it?
[00:19:23] George: well, He, the, that's what he called himself. He, He would send letters saying, this is the Zodiac speaking. And
[00:19:28] Angela: Oh, so he dubbed himself. He gave himself his own serial killer name.
[00:19:32] George: Right, Exactly.
I'll digress for a second. A couple years back I did jack Ripper case closed, presented at the meeting. And so that's some
[00:19:39] Angela: It was an excellent talk by the way.
[00:19:41] George: Oh, thank The uh, in that one, it's something similar. There were letters that were sent to the police people claiming to be Jack Ripper, and there's only one that might have been authentic that they but again, this same type of thing. He's sent in these letters. He's sent in these cryptograms. Mr. Hartnell described again, the guy's covered up, he described a white male. Estimate his weight is more than 170 pounds. And then after he stabbed them, the killer walked like 500 yards to where his car was, where Mr. Hartnell's car was parked. And he, he wrote on the side of his, car door Referencing the Vallejo stabbing and referencing the shootings at both of those those other areas. So they knew this was the same guy essentially; he put the date, time and all that.
So after, this was back in September 1969. October 11th, 1969, there was a cab driver named Paul Stein in San Francisco. He was shot to death in his vehicle and a piece of his bloody shirt was removed by the killer. Now, in this one, there were actually three teenagers who saw him, and there were actually two police officers who encountered him, but did not stop him at the time.
They saw him walking away from the general direction. And they came up with a description between all the police officers and the teenagers, that he was a white male of average height, 25 to 45 years of age with a crew cut. And this is the last officially known murder of the Zodiac.
And like I said he subsequently sent, would send letters to, the. Police as well as to the the media outlets back then, claiming that he, he murdered up to 37 people. In as a matter of fact, three days after Paul Stein's killing the San Francisco Chronicle received a letter with a torn portion of Mr. Stein's bloody shirt in the letter to, to, I guess authenticate it. Then in November of 1969 he then sends a 340 character cryptogram to the San Francisco Chronicle. Now this one has remained unsolved up until December of 2020, when it was finally deciphered. And again, not any information. Uh, It tells anything about who he is. Just talks about what he's doing, what he likes to do, that sort of thing, why he's killing people. And then he also sent two other very short cryptograms subsequent to that, but those have never been deciphered because they are so short, you can't find patterns and that sort of thing in trying to decode.
[00:21:59] Angela: Not enough information.
[00:22:01] George: Exactly.
In December of 1969, he contacted attorney Melvin Belli. And Melvin Belli was a big time attorney back in the, late sixties, early seventies. If anybody's a Star Trek fan. He was the the Avenging angel in one of the episodes of the original Star Trek. Just so you can get a point of reference, you might remember Oh,
[00:22:20] Angela: I am sure there's a few people listening that remember star Trek back
[00:22:24] George: That's right and it's still, it still reruns on MeTV. So yeah, so anyway he sends Melvin Belli a letter again with another swatch of Paul Stein's shirt again just saying associating you know who he is. Then in March of 1970, there's an incident where um, A lady named Kathleen Johns and her infant daughter were driving near west of Modesto, California, and a guy pulls alongside of her and he starts signaling that pointing to her tire like she has a problem. She's having a problem with her tire. So she pulls over he gets out, he says, oh your wheels loose. Let me tighten it up for you. So he gets there, fools with her tire. He begins to take off. She takes off. And the wheel falls off the car. So she pulls over, he circles back around and he says, Hey, look, I'll give you a ride to the gas station or whatever. So he takes her and her infant daughter and drives around for a couple of hours, he's passing gas stations, he's not stopping. Eventually, at some point he's stopped and she bolted out the car with her daughter and went and hid like in, in the bushes. And he he tried to find her, couldn't find her, and left.
There's some questions. This was actually the Zodiac, but in a letter in July, 1970, about two months after the, this potential abduction he took credit for abducting her. One other case that they think might be related to the zodiac that there's some little bit of tenuous, circumstances that might associate it with him. There's a, there was a lady named Donna Ann Lass and in September of 1970 she was last seen alive in state line Nevada. She disappeared. Then in March 1971, the Zodiac sent a postcard to the San Francisco Chronicle that advertised some condominiums near the area where Ms. Las disappeared. So they know this postcard was from Zodiac, but they don't know if it was some kind of cryptic message that he had something to do with her disappearance. The last anyone heard of the Zodiac was January 29th, 1974. He sent a final letter to the San Francisco Chronicle, and he's never been heard from since.
Naturally this case throughout the years has generated a lot of interest with Cryptograms and people, especially with the internet. There are several websites set up to people talking about their favorite suspects or why they think these people are certain suspects. Probably the only suspect who sort of has been officially named was Arthur Leigh Allen. He was a former school teacher who lived up in that area. And there were some, some things that indicated it might be him they were kinda like these kind of little bits of circumstantial evidence.
But in, I think it was around 2002, the San Francisco Police Department Crime Lab analyzed some DNA from some of the letters from the Zodiac, and I remember seeing it, they, they aired us on a TV show called Primetime, which used to be on ABC. And they were able to exclude Arthur Leigh Allen as a potential suspect.
Now, if you go back and look into the, to the lore of the Zodiac there are other killings that people think he may have been involved in. He has never taken any kind of outright credit for it. But there are these, these sort of other mysterious killings that happen in and around that area. So, you know, there's some indications that it might have been him. And like I said, every now and then, people you know, start naming their these suspects. Um, They just recently had a group that named a guy who was a a house painter and a former Air Force airmen as. The latest suspect that they think you know, and again, it's all kind of the circumstantial evidence that Oh yeah, he he had a watch watch was found by uh, Cheri Jo Bates's body that had some paint on it. He was a painter, that sort of thing. And a few other things, but they've never really released any of their evidence to, for anybody to say that you know, If this you know, This, could be the guy you know, like I said, it's a lot of, things as you probably know, in a lot of these investigations, they always have these people that pop up that he looks really good as a suspect and just find out that he's not.
[00:26:22] Angela: Yeah, I did notice that when I was looking into it a little bit as well, that there's a lot of groups of like amateur detectives or even like retired detectives and groups that are trying to solve the case. People like hobbyists that decode the cryptograms and things like that, but, I would be concerned, like even when the San Francisco Crime Lab, going back to some of that historical evidence that they have in doing DNA testing on it. I have to imagine that late sixties, early to mid seventies, we probably were not being very careful about how we were handling that evidence. So how trustworthy are we of any D N A type material that we would find on those?
[00:27:06] George: Yeah. And that's, that's a, that's a very good question. I mean, Yeah, we don't know how many times it's been handled, who's done what with it, but I think the San Francisco police department crime will have focused on the stamps back then that might be beyond some people's time. People used lick stamps. To put 'em on envelopes and like I said, when they did the analysis back in 2002 they did develop, I believe, four loci. That were from that, and which kinda I've kind of wondered now with investigative genetic genealogy if I figured by now, somebody certainly would've sent whether the evidence is from San Francisco PD or this from Riverside what they have from Riverside, or Vallejo also received some letters, Vallejo Police Department and the. Paper there and Vallejo said they were back in 2018, that they were doing some genetic genealogy on it. But no, nothing's been said to this day. Same thing with, I figured if they'd had something by now, we'd know it at this.
[00:28:02] Angela: Some of that stuff takes a lot of time. We hear about it in the news now because Forensic investigative Genealogy is like, you know, this, this bigger thing now. But I think still developing those work processes, streamlining that process and really figuring out how to do, and a lot of the databases that people were using before are locked down more now than they used to be. People are being more aware of the correct use and misuse of people's genealogical and genetic data, and so there's a lot more caution around that so could be maybe they're holding it close to their chest until they… Get or maybe right, and they haven't been able to find anything, so,
[00:28:47] George: And the other thing is you, as you know, is that a lot of times these, genealogy family trees lead to dead ends. If someone's been adopted or something along those lines, or if there's a break in the family tree. So that could be it as well, or yeah,
[00:29:01] Angela: you might just be waiting for that one relative to opt- in
[00:29:05] George: That's right. So that's the Zodiac right now let's get into Gary Stewart's story. Like I said, his story is fairly interesting.
In March 15th, 1963, the man known as Gary Stewart today was abandoned as a baby in a stairwell in an apartment complex in Baton Rouge. So this is kind of where Gary's story starts. He was adopted by Lloyd and Leona Stewart. And they legally changed his name to Gary Stewart. It's interesting, Gary um, became an electrical engineer. As a matter of fact he and I could have crossed paths back at LSU back in the day because he was a he was starting electrical engineering at LSU right around the same time I was going there.
And
[00:29:48] Angela: You may be been in the same classes.
[00:29:49] George: well, I don't think so cause I don't really think we had too many crossovers with electrical engineering at the time. I was a biology, I wanted to stay something easy, microbiology, so like I said he became a successful electrical engineer. Worked for several companies in Baton Rouge.
And then in May of 2002, a lady by the name of Julia Gifford contacts Mr. Stewart's adoptive mother Leona and she said she's looking for her son. And then Gary knew he had been adopted. He knew his story. His story made the news in Baton Rouge at the time, back in the 1960s.
So he was interested in meeting her. So in June of 2002, he meets his mother. His next obvious question is who was my father? And this also becomes interesting, and this is where it starts tying in with the Zodiac. She said his father's name was Van, and she said she didn't really remember the rest of his name and that sort of thing.
So eventually Gary started researching and he found out that his father was a man by the name of Earl Van Best, Jr. In October of 1961, Earl Van Best Jr. was 27 years old. He meets 13 year old Judy Chandler at an ice cream parlor. And this becomes a thing of of I guess myth building by the media.
It becomes known as the ice cream Parlor Romance. You have a 27-year-old man, 13-year-old Judy Chandler. They run away to Reno and he marries Judy in January of 1962.
Now he and Judy go on the run, and they leave they leave California. Authorities are probably in hot pursuit kind of thing.
He ends up in New Orleans, Judy's pregnant, and on February 12th, 1963. Earl Van Dorn Best is born. Earl Van Dorn Best eventually becomes Gary Stewart.
Earl van Best Jr. takes his son from New Orleans. Goes to Baton Rouge, abandons him in the stairwell, goes back to New Orleans. He tells Judy that, oh yeah I I left him at a church kind of thing.
Eventually authorities catch up with both of them in New Orleans. They arrest him. He goes to prison for a while. They also arrest Judy as being a runaway. And that's where the lost connection between Gary and his birth mother occur, very early on.
[00:32:12] Angela: Okay.
[00:32:13] George: So just a little bit more about Earl Van Best Jr. He, like I said, he does some time in prison for what he's done. He eventually dies in May 20th, 1984 in Mexico City. Okay. And Gary's finding all this out through his research now as he's starting to research. He's, he notices a photograph of his father and he says, this looks very much like the sketch of the zodiac that was done by the people who had the eyewitnesses who had put together this description. So he then starts researching even further. He goes back and finds a marriage record where his mother and his his father got married. And he gets a handwriting expert who looks at that and looks at the the handwriting from the zodiac and says, these writings are very similar. Also, there's some fingerprints that Earl Van Best Jr had taken and there was a scar on one of the fingers. Now looking at some of the Zodiac fingerprints that were developed, there appears to be a similar scar. And then, like I said, he gets together with Susan Mustafa, they write this book, Most Dangerous Animal of All.
Then like I said, eventually I got the DNA results. He was able, and going back to this ABC primetime, special that aired in October of 2002 he, I remember seeing the special, they actually showed the profile, but it was blurred out. You couldn't see it. Gary actually had this videotape. He froze it, blew it up, and claimed he could tell what the alleles were. And like I said, he provides me with those alleles. I compare it to his obligate paternal alleles and his profile. And the source of this profile cannot be excluded as the father of Gary Stewart. And so from there some movie producers became interested in the story.
They take all this information and from his and Susan's book they compile this documentary about the case. And I'm gonna stop telling right here, right now what happened after that, because there are more twists and turns in the story to come more so than the previous things we've talked about. And so if anyone wants to hear the rest of the story, you're gonna have to come to the AFDAA meeting.
[00:34:33] Angela: Yeah, you're going to have to come to the AFDAA meeting. It's quite the little drama you've laid out for everyone. So if you want to find out what the DNA results were for this and how this all turned out make sure that you visit the AFDAA website at af d a a.org and uh, click on the meetings button and you can register right there directly from the website. There's information on the conference hotel as well. So, I'm looking for, I I, I have to confess, I already know what, how it turns out, so, um, but I'm not telling either.
[00:35:12] George: The rest of your listeners won't be disappointed if they come attend because like I said, there's a lot of twists and turns, interesting things that happen. Um, and, and I, I'll, you know, I was happy in a way to be part a little, at least a little footnote of the Zodiac history. Cause I, you know, when it, when these things first took place, I was like seven years old.
And I do remember, not necessarily then, but uh, but later on hearing about the case and then I really took an interest in the case, um, around, I think it was around 1984 when Joe Warren and I were working together. He picked up a book by Robert Graysmith called Zodiac. And uh, and so I read that and Robert Graysmith did a really good job in terms of putting out all the information there that was on the Zodiac at the time. Um, and so then I really took a real interest in this case. So it was, like I said, it was, it was kind of nice to be part of that little piece of that maybe history of, uh, you know, one of the coldest, you know, mysterious cases of the 20th century and one that I've, you know, I practically grew up with, uh, You know, so like I said, it'll, it'll be, like I said, it'll be interesting to hear some of the twists and turns, so we see if the case is actually closed or not.
[00:36:22] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. There you are part of the history of this case now too. So I'll link information in the show note for, um, I probably can't find that primetime documentary, a link to that, because that's been been quite some time. But we might be able to link to, the Susan Mustafa that you mentioned, the author, maybe this other book that Dr. Warren had mentioned to you as well. And of course, I, I definitely want to share information about your laboratory As well. Is it Scale's, Biological Laboratory. There's always people that have cold cases or just need help with understanding, you know, if they've got forensic evidence in the case and, and you're, you're available as a resource.
[00:37:06] George: Yes.
[00:37:07] Angela: I just wanna make sure everyone knows how to get in touch with you if they need, need some of your services too.
[00:37:12] George: yeah, if you can link it to, to my, my website, it's uh, www forensic science resources.com.
[00:37:19] Angela: Yeah, definitely will do that. Thank you very much for taking the time to come on the show.
[00:37:25] George: I've got a face made for podcasts.
[00:37:29] Angela: Yeah, I, I, my guests are always happier to hear when I say the podcast is audio only and they're like, okay, I'll consider it then! Us scientists are mostly a shy lot, so. Um, great. So thank you so much, and again, if anybody has any feedback about this episode, is interested in learning more and can't attend the meeting, I.
Email me at hello@secretsfromthecrimelab.com and let me know your thoughts. Maybe in a little while we can convince George to come back on the podcast after the AFDAA meeting and tell the rest of the story for those of you who, who couldn't make it.
[00:38:12] George: I would love that.
[00:38:15] Angela: Yeah. So if you're interested, email me Hello at secrets from the crime lab.com and let me know.
All right, thanks and have a good night.